ITS 3 Wire

Mattoxh

Member
For R&T Parts check out RTgear.com should have everything The guy that owns RT Gear Owned Ruff and Tuff originally. . Also Ruffandtuffparts.com.
The four wheel drive system will eventually give you a problem, i don't think it was ever perfected. I have a wiring diagram on the switches, it is on the Facebook Page File section. Check out the Facebook Page Ruff and Tuff Electric Vehicles I am an admin trying to figure out how to add you. Try friending me Heyward Mattox on FB there is a picture of me and my Grandchildren on the page then I can add you. As far as the speed problem, as I stated before I am using am old 2 wire I got from a junked 2 wd 6 seater RnT it has a different controller. The fault code 1-2 went away when I installed the 2 wire sensor. I had two do some retiring, I disconnected the wire to pin 14 it is the ground and is not needed with a 2 wire I just unhooked it and left the wire in the box in case I go back to the 3 wire. I disconnected the wire from the emergency brake to the sensor which carried 48 volts l left it in the box as well. I left the wire from Pin 15 which caries the return voltage back to the controller. I added a wire from Pin 13 to the sensor, I had to add a pin to the molex connector. Repining the molex is another issue. Pin 13 sends input voltage which is 14-16 volts to the sensor. To clarify the 2 wire is connected to Pin 13 and Pin 15.
My new friend Mr. Derrick, the golf cart mechanic owns a couple Ruff Tuffs and is friends with the folks at RT Gear in Columbia, SC. He is learning with me so he only charges for the parts. The 2 wire I used is old and it may not be a proper match, I am not sure if they are all the same as far as the voltage reduction. But my fault is gone. I am going back to see Mr. Derrick next week he has a new 3 wire and a new 2 wire, we plan to put the 3 wire back on just to see if the fault returns, I think I will probably put a new 2 wire back on and leave it, it is cheaper and actually it is what the controller specifies. I spoke to Tech Support at Curtis before hooking it up.
The 3 wire has burned up 3 controllers because of the high voltage input and out to the controller. I think with a new properly sized 2 wire sensor and reprogramming I should get my speed back.
Another issue I am working on is when I barely push the accelerator just enough to engage the motor it sometimes will loose power for a second. Mr. Derrick mentioned this to RT Gear and they told him not to go extremely slow it could damage the controller. You can change the accelerating and deceleration by changing the parameters with the hand held, so we will work on that as well. My wife tells me Junk the cart and buy a name brand cart but I really like the cart and enjoy working on it. I still would like to find a used hand held programmer if I can find one at a decent price. I saw the one on EBAY $40 month rental, I may try one. Just thought of another question you may be able to answer; the emergency brake has 3 wires going in one is full pack voltage and the other two is the switch I think. Not sure why you need 3 wires, instead of 2 one wire out sends pack voltage to the micro switch and the sensor ( I disconnected the wire to sensor) which then goes to the controller. The guy at RT Gear told me when I first started having problems to change the incoming power wire from the brake to put power on the sensor when the brake is released and not through the micro switch. In other words when the brake is released the power should go to the input side of the switch and the sensor at the same time. According to RT Gear if the sensor is energized from the outlet side of the switch a fault will appear and disappear when the cart is moving. Not the case with me.
Until next time thanks.
Heyward
 

Bodein1982

New Member
My friend that owns all the ruff and Tuff that I have been working on brought me ALL THE CARTS TO LOOK AT , LOL AND LO AND BEHOLD IN ONE IS THE NEWLY ADAPTABLE 2 wire throttle sensor that has the 13 pin added , it was not running , I put new nbatteries in it and it jumped around until, I smelled burning electrical, it was the motor brushes ,the armature that the brushes ride on had been oxidized from sitting up for many moons , I Took the motor out and it s goimg yo take a miracle to get it back going. This buggy is an older one with inverted leaf springs and drum brakes and not locking Em brake , they were froze up also , that on had an old double throw contractor for forward and reverse , the inrush from the switch is so loud it's unnerving , sound like a spoon on s cake pan , lol. George is the name of the guru of all things ruff and Tuff , he is a load of info and also eager to hear wjat mods the owners have been able to do with there's , ihave submitted a request for a wiring diagram on the cruisers , that have all the fail safe switches and safety cut off. I had a Cruiser that I had been having a wondeful time on except the batteries were fading fast. So I took the batteries out to replace them. At the time I only had one 3 wire to share between the two I had going the Cruiser and a 4x4. The batteries were charged and the. Key omehow got left on in the cart with no throttle sensor. , it was a coupe weeks before I got back from houston with the new batteries , when I had. Them installed , I proceeded to plug in the new key switch and a loud pop ensued , And each time I did the fuse would blow , I traded wired and checked harness and all that never figured that out , I had not tried to put the throttle sensor in the Cruiser and hook all that back up ,but what would the throttle sensor being missing have to do with blowing fused? Seems that there is too much voltage going to the key switch al

Isn't
 

Mattoxh

Member
Here are two schematics that came from George. Just a thought when you connected the switch was the key on, you may want to disconnect the positive battery cable until the key switch is wired up. Also you have 12 volts from the converter wired into the switch as well as pack voltage. I am interested in the two wire sensor do you have a model number on it.
 

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Bodein1982

New Member
Yes I will take a screenshot of tbe 2 wire and the wiring that they used to make it go . I tried it every way possible I had the switch off I even unplugged the wiring connector to tbe emergency brake , yes I hooked the switch up before I connected the power wire to the battery I was thinking I am going to separate the 12vt from the 48vt feed that is together in tbe loom that goes to key switch
I had cross continuity when I ohmed it out , The Key switch is all plastic inside I took a bad one apart to see why it was blowing fuses and it nothing but plastic with thin metal contacts which If there is a voltage back feed melts tbe plastic and allows the contacts to short out ! I was just going to put a on / off switch that would supply the 12 vt feed to the instruments panel and then us an ezgo on fwd/rev switch that cuts the48vt power on off fwd / rev from the same Keyed component! That way you can’t not forget and leave the key on . Or use just the accessory function on the reg keyswitch which draws a lot of amps If headlights are on and 48 vt power is also traveling in the same harness too Small guage wire for tbe amp load ! Should have had a low voltage relay relay that kept all the high amp circuitry in the back between the controller contactor solenoids Motor where all the heavy wires are and switched by electromagnetic devices and not a manual on off the inrush is Just not friendly to cheap plastic parts ! Lol never designed for that type of voltage and resistance! And I had been assuming that the controller was a 1268-5403 which is the 0-5vt subgroup but I had taken out the delta Q and saw tbe I’d # that had 5502 When I google the 1268-5502 it doesn’t have the Manual or pin out for that one ! They don’t even show it listed ! The fsip tech sent me an email showing me how to wire up the 2 wire and it’s the same as what you described . In this cart they must have had a conversion kit the wiring is new and color coded to specifically denote the new component ! I’ll send some screenshots when I get around the cart later
 

Bodein1982

New Member
Here is a link to complete manual for a 1268 controller. https://bintellielectricvehicles.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Curtis-Controller-1268-Manual.pdf.
I can send a picture of the key switch if that will help.


Yes that’s the ones I have already ,
Here is a link to complete manual for a 1268 controller. https://bintellielectricvehicles.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Curtis-Controller-1268-Manual.pdf.
I can send a picture of the key switch if that will help.
Yes I would like the keyswitch pic and the route and components that it affects or stages through to operate the various input or controls that provide the safety requirements and also engage the controller to provide variable performance parameters thanks
 

Bodein1982

New Member
Earlier this evening i worked on a 2008 Hunter 4x4 with a Curtis 1268 and the orange 48 vt main contactor that had been taken out of service cap removed and thrown in a box same thing with smaller one ! Tested both and found both were good ; Diode was bad on main contactor but resistor was good had the red fused power wire; 18 gauge) not connected due to the wire at terminal being broken or cut ! Also red / yellow distribution wire that went to coil side of smaller solenoids terminal was broken From wire when I was reinstalled the two solenoids! I used a new bolt and but to make a secure connection of wiring that Went to positive and negative terminals ( still has old batteries in cart then I used my heavy guage portable battery pack with 12 ‘ leads to connect pack voltage 51.4 to posribe and neg 48 but supply circuit had key on at battery indicator showing max voltage the fwd/rev switch illuminated but not actively engaging no click or solenoids pull in when selecting direction and no micro switch accelerator clicking Lol don’t even know if it has a throttle sensor The floor mat has not been cut and the screws that’ retain the cover still are in no click nort even the minor sound it does when pushed ! The other 4x4 has the dual switching solenoids and the generic CTL 7500D 650 amp controller , I have been running tbe Hell out of it with new Trojan T -875 with only the front two wheels hooked to the output shaft as my ring gear was trashed with over half the lands either chipped off or completely rolled over and causing a bad pop And metal crunch and would hang up , the duel front wheel drive ( locker and 4x4 both engaged provides awesome hole shot power and speed , but hard to initiate grip or prevent wheel spin with the small mud tires on it ! lol was going right
Rotate but rear look to big to go on front
 

Mattoxh

Member
I can send a picture of the key switch connections.
Yes I will take a screenshot of tbe 2 wire and the wiring that they used to make it go . I tried it every way possible I had the switch off I even unplugged the wiring connector to tbe emergency brake , yes I hooked the switch up before I connected the power wire to the battery I was thinking I am going to separate the 12vt from the 48vt feed that is together in tbe loom that goes to key switch
I had cross continuity when I ohmed it out , The Key switch is all plastic inside I took a bad one apart to see why it was blowing fuses and it nothing but plastic with thin metal contacts which If there is a voltage back feed melts tbe plastic and allows the contacts to short out ! I was just going to put a on / off switch that would supply the 12 vt feed to the instruments panel and then us an ezgo on fwd/rev switch that cuts the48vt power on off fwd / rev from the same Keyed component! That way you can’t not forget and leave the key on . Or use just the accessory function on the reg keyswitch which draws a lot of amps If headlights are on and 48 vt power is also traveling in the same harness too Small guage wire for tbe amp load ! Should have had a low voltage relay relay that kept all the high amp circuitry in the back between the controller contactor solenoids Motor where all the heavy wires are and switched by electromagnetic devices and not a manual on off the inrush is Just not friendly to cheap plastic parts ! Lol never designed for that type of voltage and resistance! And I had been assuming that the controller was a 1268-5403 which is the 0-5vt subgroup but I had taken out the delta Q and saw tbe I’d # that had 5502 When I google the 1268-5502 it doesn’t have the Manual or pin out for that one ! They don’t even show it listed ! The fsip tech sent me an email showing me how to wire up the 2 wire and it’s the same as what you described . In this cart they must have had a conversion kit the wiring is new and color coded to specifically denote the new component ! I’ll send some screenshots when I get around the cart later
 

Mattoxh

Member
I am out of town will get you a picture ASAP however on mine I just disconnected the old key switch and reconnected the connectors no way to do it wrong. To test I would disconnect the 12 volt converter and first and last battery and check the harness with an ohm meter. Check behind your gauges and make sure none of the wires in the dash are disconnected.
 

Wes1

New Member
I too am working to rebuild an old 2008 R&T 4x4. Like you, I have a 1-2 LED code on the Curtis controller. Mattox, would you mind posting a link to the 2-wire ITS that you've tested? Any feedback for regaining the lost 5mph? Does anyone know where I could find a "new" key-switch for the R&T?
 

Bodein1982

New Member
Well I have successfully resurrected 3 out of the 5 Ruff & Tuff carts, had them all running great at some point. Now the 2008 & earlier models, a 4x4 and 2 cruisers ( limo ) are the only ones that have consistently been dependable. The first one had a 2009 with the 1268 - 5502 controller I got working , from when it would just shut down everything when the gas pedal was pushed . Don't know exactly what I did to fix it but I had it running reliably on the old original discover agm batteries. It just would not have the long range or the top speed as the batteries were old. I got new batteries and put them in and then it started blowing fuses when the key was turned on. Got a new keyswitch and it still would not do anything. Also have a 2009 4x4. That had solenoids in a box. And wires cut or chewed up by mice or rats, got all the electrical connections spliced back together and hooked up to where they were supposed to go. I took out the motor and refurbished it and the brushes and got new batteries for it and it would scream. It worked well for a few days and then it started doing the same thing a day the 2009 Cruiser, the solenoid would pull in but then click out then it would lose power, or the battery meter would go black and none of the 12 volt accessories would work. Turn it off for a little while and come back and turn on the key and the battery meter would show full volts and when the forward and reverse switch was activated and accelerator barely engaged the solenoid would pull in then when you depress the accelerator to go it would jump and shut down. Have bypassed the ebrake safety switch , put a new keyswitch in it and still nothing. The 3 carts with the old style double throw contractors and the ctl 7500 controller seems bullet proof, loud snap when selecting F&R but other than that it operates everytime and has top speed of 25-30 mph. I have checked all the wiring for shorted conditions and found none but I am getting 3 volts to frame when I touch the positive lead to my volt meter to the frame with the negative on battery ground post. I get different faults on the controller from a 2-4, 2-5, 5-5 and I believe a 4-4. Of course I also get the 1-2 which I had when they were running properly . The 2008 have the same keyswitch but different controllers and they are the only ones working at present . Wonder if the microswitch in the Accel box could be causing problems ?
 

Mattoxh

Member
The micro switch is easy to check with a vm. The switch is used everywhere. Find a junk ice maker I believe it has the same switch. Make sure it is not sticking remove the wires and connect a van to it and work it by hand and watch the vm.
 

Bodein1982

New Member
Yeah I work on appliances had several laying around but I’m eliminating all the safety switches and also going to put relays to switch the high voltage instead of going through the key switch
 

Mattoxh

Member
Keep me posted on this. I am still perplexed about my Throttle sensor and why R&T used pack voltage input from key instead of low voltage from Controller. I would put my three wire sensor back on with pack voltage but I cannot get rid of the 1-2 fault code. Keep posting.
 

Bodein1982

New Member
Found the culprit there is connector that is hidden underneath the D.C. Convertor , which involves the wiring from the throttle position sensor. To the controller , it also has the power wire from the keyswitch to power up the controller , it's in the most unfortunate place where it's destined to get corroded due to the place where it's at laying on the belly in all the mud and debris that gets splashed up from going off pavement . It would have a intial voltage reading , then when amp were supplied it would lose contact , like a corroded battery terminal , once I cleaned the terminal And put it back together my issues were instantly solved , Jesus I hope that is the situation with the 09, limo Cruiser , it was running fine then all the sudden it started shutting. Down and do nothing. , whereas before it was fine , an everyday driving kind of fine , got so frustrated with troubleshoot g that I pulled off every single wire loom and traced all the wiring and cane up with nothing , changed key switches , nothing , I'm finding that the 08 and earlier with the double f & r switching contractors are the most reliable of all the R&T carts , they never shutter or kick out like the Curtis controlled carts , when you turn on the key and select direction and hit the gas. , you better be hanging on , the torque almost lifts the front wheels off the ground , and it's acceleration is 0-30 in a blink of an eye , I just wish they had disc brakes and independent suspension ! Sometimes simple is safe and reliable !
 

Mattoxh

Member
I removed the connector on my 09 and straight wired it. That was one of the first things George at Ruff & Tuff told me to do. I have an 08 parts, 2 wheel drive 6 seater with different controller and motor. 30 mph is great.
 
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